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Post by rockndoc on Aug 16, 2010 11:49:59 GMT -5
Cavs send: James Harden $3,800,000 (2013) SG Roy Hibbert $900,000 (2012) C CAVS 2011 1st.
To Minnesota for:
Joe Johnson (SG/SF) - HAWKS - $2,000,000 (2013)
This is a real tough one for me to do, but I'm going for it all again.
This trade gets me a stud on a ridiculous contract, saves me a roster spot and cash for one guy in FA.
For Minny its a no brainer. Hibbert is going to blow up without Murphy there, but I'm loaded at C and didnt need him. Harden was the only thing I didnt want to lose here, but gotta pay the freight for getting JJ. The pick? Hope its the last of the first round, and this trade could guarantee it.
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Post by MinnesotaGM on Aug 16, 2010 12:05:23 GMT -5
I did not anticipate trading Mr. Johnson but this offer (yes, this was his original offer and the owner of the Cavs knows how to wrestle a player away) just made me have to say yes.
I lose out this year as Johnson is an impact player on a great deal. However, he has played 9 years in the league and was not an expected re-sign player for me. I am getting close to compete for championships mode and I expect that to begin in earnest in 2011 and beyond. This sets me up very well for that. Absolute worst case realistically Harden and Hibbert are effective depth and quality players to have a deep bench and the draft pick brings in other young talent for depth or is flipped for something else. Best case realistically is Harden or Hibbert becoming a boarderline stud fantasy basketball player or better. They are assets that once they showcase more improvement are very movable pieces in and of themselves if I so choose. I got Johnson last offseason in trade for Elton Brand and a second rounder (and I also got a 2010 first rounder and Gibson, who I traded away later). So I view this as a deal sorta where I traded Brand and a second rounder for James Harden, Roy Hibbert and a future first round pick likely to be outside of the lottery. I'll take that any day.
I accept.
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Post by Trail Ducker on Aug 16, 2010 12:54:46 GMT -5
Wow, Cavs got even more scarey!
1-0
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Post by Mighty Mouse on Aug 16, 2010 15:53:19 GMT -5
I don't think there is a better value in the league right now then Joe Johnson @ 2 mil. Maybe Ginobili at 500k, but still. I don't understand how the Cavs are getting a huge upgrade at SG (JJ over Harden) while shaving money of their cap. That pick will be a late 1st probably and Hibbert is pretty meh. Good value, decent rotation C, but no where near the all-star that JJ is.
If JJ was expiring, this would make more sense, but Minny is losing out on 3 full seasons of an all-star SG at a bargain price.
I fail to see how this is a no brainer for Minny. I just don't see anything coming back in return that is close to the production level that JJ puts up. Harden is talented and young, but also hasn't won the starting job from Thabo Sefolosha and will probably never be be more than the 4th option on offense. His best case scenario isn't as high as where JJ is today. And Hibbert has great upside, but he's also a 7 footer who averaged less than 6 boards last year, despite being the only true C on the roster. And the Pacers are apparently determined to bring in more front court help this summer.
Normally, I wouldn't think twice about a trade between two GMs that I know and trust to run their team properly. But if this trade were to happen between two new GMs I'd deny it. So in fairness, I'm going to vote no. I'm open to having my mind changed, but right now I'm just not convinced.
1-1
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Post by carney25 on Aug 16, 2010 18:13:57 GMT -5
It's alright by me. If Minnesota wants depth and potential why stop him. 2-1
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Post by rockndoc on Aug 16, 2010 19:43:37 GMT -5
I don't think there is a better value in the league right now then Joe Johnson @ 2 mil. Maybe Ginobili at 500k, but still. I don't understand how the Cavs are getting a huge upgrade at SG (JJ over Harden) while shaving money of their cap. That pick will be a late 1st probably and Hibbert is pretty meh. Good value, decent rotation C, but no where near the all-star that JJ is. If JJ was expiring, this would make more sense, but Minny is losing out on 3 full seasons of an all-star SG at a bargain price. I fail to see how this is a no brainer for Minny. I just don't see anything coming back in return that is close to the production level that JJ puts up. Harden is talented and young, but also hasn't won the starting job from Thabo Sefolosha and will probably never be be more than the 4th option on offense. His best case scenario isn't as high as where JJ is today. And Hibbert has great upside, but he's also a 7 footer who averaged less than 6 boards last year, despite being the only true C on the roster. And the Pacers are apparently determined to bring in more front court help this summer. Normally, I wouldn't think twice about a trade between two GMs that I know and trust to run their team properly. But if this trade were to happen between two new GMs I'd deny it. So in fairness, I'm going to vote no. I'm open to having my mind changed, but right now I'm just not convinced. 1-1 Well stated Mighty Mouse. That being said, I did this trade when I was working, and not really focused. When I got done with work, I said to myself, "What the hell did I just do?" I gave up two huge pieces of my future, and a pick for one guy who has alot of mileage on him. When it comes to assets, I paid alot for JJ. PS. Its still 2-1
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Post by Mighty Mouse on Aug 16, 2010 20:13:00 GMT -5
Not buyin it, Roc, sorry. You upgraded your SG position by trading your back-up for an all-star that gets paid less. Thats huge.
You gave up a shit pick (most likely) and the 3rd center on your depth chart to make it happen. Not a hard decision in my mind.
This looks a hell of a lot like Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Marc Gasol, and two 1sts. In terms of assets, the Lakers paid a lot for Pau too. In terms of basketball talent, they gave up jack shit.
Still 2-1.
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Post by rockndoc on Aug 16, 2010 20:18:46 GMT -5
Whatever. Hibbert is going to blow up this year, and Harden is going to be a stud. In two years I will want them back for JJ.
These type of trades are made all the time in rw. One team mortgages the future, one team buys it.
BTW.....look at Minny's roster. This gets him a needed C and JJ wasnt even his starter. Harden moves to that spot. This trade improves Minnys flexibility in his rotation and gets him a trade chip too.
Not too many times you get a real win/win, but this is one of them.
Its still 2-1
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Post by Miege22 on Aug 16, 2010 21:39:24 GMT -5
I thought this one over for a while. I can definitely see why Mighty denied it, because it's really not that close.
That being said, both owners know what they are doing.
3-1
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Post by MinnesotaGM on Aug 16, 2010 23:33:54 GMT -5
Mighty, I'm glad you voted your conscious. I agree, Johnson is sick value at that deal. So, contract wise, I traded away a holy grail of sorts.
I decided this off season I would generate quality depth on my team. Look at my roster page. PG is my most shallow position with Reke. There were 7 (count them, 7!!!!!) owners who passed on him and I traded up in that draft to get him. I had him at the top of my draft list last year. At SG I have the elder (but still very young) Roy and the young and talented Harden (who, I am very bullish on. Not as bullish as Reke but I see a boarderline-stud player in him). Ariza and Thornton are good or better players with upside at SF. Griffin and Martin at PF is nothing to turn a nose up at. Gasol is my key at center and I have young guys who I firmly believe will produce good or better numbers going forward in Monroe and Hibbert. Heck, I even have some mad love for Pekovic, who, last off-season people were questioning even being on my roster. That is, by my count 11 quality players deep with 3 studs in that group being Reke, Gasol and Roy (when healthy). I think I am set up very well now. I gotta be one of the top teams with top to bottom depth. Some other teams may have one or two better stud players, but, I am one step away from joining that group. And the 2011 draft is around the corner and I have 4 picks in that draft and I plan on being a major player in that draft. Then my team will be 15 men strong, top to bottom, when you factor in free agency as well.
So, that is my view of my team. It was a hard decision to part with Mr. Johnson, but, after making the trade I just can't see how I came out badly. Worst case, I view it as a push.
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Post by rockndoc on Aug 17, 2010 0:36:39 GMT -5
Mighty, I'm glad you voted your conscious. I agree, Johnson is sick value at that deal. So, contract wise, I traded away a holy grail of sorts. I decided this off season I would generate quality depth on my team. Look at my roster page. PG is my most shallow position with Reke. There were 7 (count them, 7!!!!!) owners who passed on him and I traded up in that draft to get him. I had him at the top of my draft list last year. At SG I have the elder (but still very young) Roy and the young and talented Harden (who, I am very bullish on. Not as bullish as Reke but I see a boarderline-stud player in him). Ariza and Thornton are good or better players with upside at SF. Griffin and Martin at PF is nothing to turn a nose up at. Gasol is my key at center and I have young guys who I firmly believe will produce good or better numbers going forward in Monroe and Hibbert. Heck, I even have some mad love for Pekovic, who, last off-season people were questioning even being on my roster. That is, by my count 11 quality players deep with 3 studs in that group being Reke, Gasol and Roy (when healthy). I think I am set up very well now. I gotta be one of the top teams with top to bottom depth. Some other teams may have one or two better stud players, but, I am one step away from joining that group. And the 2011 draft is around the corner and I have 4 picks in that draft and I plan on being a major player in that draft. Then my team will be 15 men strong, top to bottom, when you factor in free agency as well. So, that is my view of my team. It was a hard decision to part with Mr. Johnson, but, after making the trade I just can't see how I came out badly. Worst case, I view it as a push. Exactly why this is a win/win trade. Minny has the long view, and I am going for the kill now. In three years, this one would look bad for me.
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